Monday, December 31, 2007

Mailcop - Muzak (tape, Midas Tapes taped 022, 1987)

Today a post about fireworks, it's the last day of the year. Odd when you think of it to associate fireworks with the last day of the year, but we really start them on new years day. Oh well. I already posted music by Roel Meelkop before when he was calling himself Happy Halloween. In 1985 or so he changed it to Mailcop, which sounds kinda like his name in English, but it means something else. In his 'Muzak' release, the second cassette he did for Midas, he used the sound of fireworks in the opening track, and for me is one of the best of that phase by him. Ripped and donated by DMDN.


Sunday, December 30, 2007

Dutch Punk #12

Various 7"s this time with texts in Dutch. There are two by the great De Straks from Delft, personal favorites of mine. Which can't be said of the second 7" by Megafoons, acoustic punks from Utrecht. I really don't like this one, but I put it anyway. The 7" by Zowizo is also great, they were from the great Wormer scene. Miranda's and Subway were donated by Kees of that great Dutch punk site, but I have no scans for them.

De Straks - Vrij Onverteerd (7", no label, 1982)
De Straks - Groeten Uit De Vrije Wereld (7", no label, 1982)
Megafoons - Nooit Meer Fascisme (7", Rock Against Records, 1983)
Zowizo - Beat Per Minute (7", Hotse-Knotse-Kneuzenrally Records, 1983)
Subway - Jesus Loves Me But I Don't Care (7", No Fun 3, 1978)
Miranda's - For Promotion Only (7", prut 001, 1981


Saturday, December 29, 2007

V2 3D Compilation (tape, V2 Archief, 1985)

The V2 Archief label released various compilations, both on cassette and CD, to document their various live activities. These were usually based along a theme or some such, but I lost the booklet that goes with this release, so I am clueless what this 'manifestation' (as was a popular phrase of the V2 people back then) was all about. It has a piece by Laibach that is also on the previously posted V2 release, and also included are Wikke 't Hooft, Ret Marut, Ad van Iersel, Demorgorgon (with Lukas Simonis), 6de Kolonne (of the Kaisettes label), Ad van Buuren (of whom I will post a great tape soon), Cas de Marez and Strafe Fur Rebellion. V2 moved to Rotterdam from 's-Hertogenbosch (I must use the correct name of the city, since you won't find Den Bosch on a map, but that's how we dutch call the city) in 1992 or 3. They just released a heavy book (in every sense of the word) on the work of Dick Raaymakers.


Friday, December 28, 2007

Unheimliche Jungfrauen - Tanzmusik Für Atomschuträume (tape, 1982), Er-Arare Musica (tape, Combinator Recorders, 198?)

Two short releases today, although you could doubt wether the release by Unheimliche Jungfrauen is really released, but I bought in Staalplaat back in the day, so let's say it's properly released, but without a label. They are three piece from Utrecht with D. Mark on guitar, K.H. Mütterliebe on vocals and casio and H. Bavinck on bass and production. They love everything German, and their tape is a great example of how easy you could copy NDW to your own end. This should be released on LP straight away (maybe I should do it, after attempts failed with Svatsox and Rondos, although the latter will release a CD in 2008).
No information on Ex-Arare Musica, but it's also nice synth stuff, a bit more experimental than the other. The release is on Combinator Records, a label from Rotterdam and according to 'Cassette Catalogus' there is also a Störung cassette on that label: wish I had that!

download unheimliche jungfrauen


Thursday, December 27, 2007

The Love Choir - Try Anything One (tape, Decay Int, 1983), Fever (tape, Decay Int, 1983)

Behind The Love Choir where the same people as the ones behind Decay Int, who came originally from Leiden, and had some ties to Kubus, although their music is quite different. They use guitars, saxophones, drums, tapes and make really odd industrial music meeting rhythm. Quite soon after these cassettes they changed their name into Friends In Low Places. 'Try Anything Once' has a live side and a studio side, which I didn't separate, and 'Fever' was made a sort of joke, and wasn't widely released. After the label moved to Rotterdam, they released some more interesting music. More of that soon.


Wednesday, December 26, 2007

A 433RPM boxing day gift

The Netherlands have a 'great' tradition of two christmas days, in some countries the second is known as 'boxing day'. So instead of a regular post of a tape or piece of vinyl, I compiled a small surprise box for you. It has some christmas pieces that I found scattered around the house, and some pieces of tapes and vinyl which were hard to lump into a more regular post, partly because it's from tape with pieces that came to you otherwise (in one case) and a compilation LP with crap music save for the two in the folder, plus two 7"s which I happen to like. Curious? I hope so, start unpacking now. If you leave a comment - great, but don't spoil the fun for others, right?


Tuesday, December 25, 2007

Santa Claus Comes - Oscar's X-Mas Carols 1985 (tape, Noel 2, 1985)

Obviously I can't escape Christmas, even though I would love to. Oscar, mentioned in the title, is Oscar Smit, for a long period the most important man in my life, since he reviewed cassettes among other things in Vinyl, the best magazine on music ever produced in The Netherlands. Due to all his contacts he compiled two or three times a compilation with alternative Christmas music. I don't have the first one, but this is the second one, with Christmas tunes by Otto Grunbauer, Bene Gesserit, Jacques van Erven, Panta Rhei, Doxa Sinistra, DDAA, History Of Unheard Music, V.ø, Genetic Factor, Mark Lane, Bump and four soundpieces by Oscar himself as Grandmaster O.


Monday, December 24, 2007

Dutch Punk - Eleventh Post

The book 'Het Gejuich Was Massaal' says in their discography that they don't list cassette releases with punk music, which of course is a great pity, for completist suckers like myself. In those days I didn't get that many cassettes with punk, I'm sure you can tell if you look at the more experimental music of the last few weeks, but I do have a few. A4 are band from Amsterdam, and besides their tracks on 'Als Je Haar' from last week, this is the only other release. The other band are The Squats of whom I posted a 7" some time ago. I told you I was in the same class as the drummer, and the singer was also in the same school - let's say he wasn't the nicest guy around. The Squats released some more tapes on their own 'Nep & Bedrog' records (which I no longer have), before splitting up. Bock, the drummer, later started The Magnificent, who released even some records in the UK. A different story altogether, which I would leave for some other blog. I think it came in a bigger enveloppe of sorts, but I no longer have it. Two punk bands from The Netherlands, and two quite different ones at that.

1. A4, Aanklacht (tape, no label, 1983)
2. The Squats (tape, Nep & Bedrog Records 001, 1980)


Sunday, December 23, 2007

Pain (tape, Kubus Kassettes KK 013, 1983)

Among all the early Kubus Kassettes being sort of ambient related music, the duo Pain is quite different. Heavy rhythm boxes and synths, but also highly atmospheric parts, make this for me a top release of this label. Pain was Ed Maenhout on guitar, synth, drum machine and Pieter Moleveld on synth, tapes and voice. I have no clue who they were and what else they did. As far as I know this is their only release.


Saturday, December 22, 2007

Kaisettes - five tapes

When I posted the 7" and cassette by Baader Popgruppe, two people left an extensive comment, and one of them, Edwin, talks about his involvement with the band. He also talks about Vovo Kai and said "guess you won't be able to pull that one out of oblivion, can you?)", well, actually Edwin, I can do that. This post deals with the early releases of his label Kaisettes, which was part of the still existing organisation De Zesde Kolonne ( On this website you can find a list of releases by this label, but it's hardly complete! The early ones posted here are hardly mentioned. Vovokai's 'Hemelse Sferen' is their second release. In that folder you will also find a Dutch article from Vinyl magazine. Zwoek is something I have no clue about - like some of the early releases, the packaging is rather 'sketchy' when it comes to information! The Zwoek work is divided in the two zips, to stay under the 100MB maximum upload for some of the share sits. In the other folder you'll find the very first tape release by MTVS 'Metamorvoos', a duo of Luc and Mark. They released a couple of more tapes, which I'll post soon. For Dah Industry is a short cassette with recordings of a printing machine. I no longer have the original booklet with xeroxed photos of the machine. The final one is Rabbit Fun which were also on the previously posted 'Effenaar' 7", with a crazy release of improvised music. I'll post some more of this label in the future ('FireBomb Frits' Stylites', 'Door Waanzin Gedreven' (although the sound quality is terrible, so I doubt wether I should do that) and the three tapes by MTVS), but nothing by Zombies Under Stress, whose complete work can be found here:
I don't have other releases, but perhaps Edwin cares to send me MP3s of them?
The music ranges from rthythmbox and synths (MTVS and Vovokai) to wildly improvised and noisy - the other three.

1. Vovokai - Hemelse Sferen, tape, Kaisettes 02, 1982
2. MTVS - Metamorvoos, tape Kaisettes no number, 1983
3. Zwoek, tape, Kaisettes 03, 1982
4. Rabbit Fun - Fatter Than Lydia Lunch, tape, Kaisettes 04, 1983
5. For Dah Industry - Type 203, tape, Kaisettes 008, 1983

1. Vovokai - Hemelse Sferen, tape, Kaisettes 02, 1982

2. MTVS - Metamorvoos, tape Kaisettes no number, 1983

3. Zwoek, tape, Kaisettes 03, 1982

4. Rabbit Fun - Fatter Than Lydia Lunch, tape, Kaisettes 04, 1983

5. For Dah Industry - Type 203, tape, Kaisettes 008, 1983

Friday, December 21, 2007

Sleep? West Berlin 1984 (tape, Kartell K002, 1984)

Beware that this post is not the start of something as gigantic as all the post with Dutch music, but I was browsing through a collection of a friend of mine and found this, which seemed nice for this blog. This compilation was compiled by Gudrun Gut of Malaria and it features music by Peng Peng, Voov, Alice's D, Fourgoki, Grande Canale, Die Haut, Campingsex, Ulkigen Pulkigen, Die Zwei, Sexorzisten, Die Hacke Experience, Cut Up Swingers, Mannamaschine, NTH, Lolitas, Agony, Todliche Doris, Mata D'Or, La Loora and Blixa Bargeld. One of the few German tapes I have.


Thursday, December 20, 2007

Final Unit (tape, Final Records 001, 198?), Ego Produkties (tape, Final Records 005, 198?)

Two tape releases of a highly obscure nature. According to the cassette catalogus there is another release on this label, which I don't have. Final Unit was real band with Aad (vocals, percussion), Henri (drums, syn. drums), Jan (bass), Guido (guitar, syn drums) and Rob (synth, vocals, rhythm box). It lists phone numbers in The Hague, but it was recorded at Nieuw Nyevelt in Wassenaar, the same place as used by Ensemble Pittoresque. The b-side is a live recordings which I couldn't properly index. Besides the titles, it says 'recorded in the living room' for the Ego Produkties release, but I wouldn't be surprised if this was some kind of off-shoot from Final Unit. Both of them are pretty decent releases of rock combining with electronics, though not really synth punk.


Tuesday, December 18, 2007

Prilius Lacus - Three Tapes

This might be one of the most obscure names thus far on this blog. A four piece band from Den Bosch, The Netherlands. They had ties to V2 when they were located in that town. Prilius Lacus rehearsed there and made recordings in the studio that was owned by Mission Papua Holland, housed in the garage next to V2. They had a conventional line up, drums, bass, guitar, vocals and saxophone, but also used lots of metal percussion, tape machines an vacuum cleaners. Their first cassette, 'Symbol Und Hoffnung' is quite raw, NDW like, but more Todliche Doris and Neubauten like. It's not great, but their second release 'Dentro De La Gravidad' has a well-balanced sound, combining the rock elements with studio trickery, sound collages and such like. It makes them sound more like Nurse With Wound and I am quite surprised of the quality after all these years. Their third and final release is 'Pas De Fear' a ten minute tape release by Korm Plastics. This came in a plastic bag, with just the tape (no shell), and some extra inserts. The other two releases are packed horrible, in my humble opinion. Burned baby dolls glued to the first and hidious purfoam on the second. We should forget those package, and enjoy, especially 'Dentro'.

1. Symbol Und Hoffnung, tape, V2 Archief V210, 1987
2. Dentro De La Gravidad, tape, V2 Archief V211, 1988
3. Pas De Fear, Korm Plastics KP 888, 1988


Monday, December 17, 2007

Tranquil Eyes - Walks (tape, Stichting Stopcontact, 198?)

I did remember this tape as being very good minimal synth, so it was among the first to digitize it, but it turned out to be a less good. The songs are good, and Tranquil Eyes certainly had great potential, but the mix could have been better and the sound quality of the tape in general too. It has two songs that were also on the previously posted 'Contact Discs' and were one of the main bands on Stichting Stopcontact. Still, it's pretty decent synth pop and highly enjoyable, but somewhat more dated than say Das Ding.


Sunday, December 16, 2007

Dutch Punk - Tenth Post

A great compilation released by the Nitwitz label Vögelspin Records, with Rakketax (who grew immensely from the previous releases, already posted), Outlawz (whose songs about chocolate milk created a hype in drinking that punk concerts), Pistache BV (their cassette with Eton Crop is wanted here), Amsterdamned, A4 (their cassette comes soon), Frites Modern and Nitwitz. Less Ex punk oriented but a great album of speedy punk rock.


Saturday, December 15, 2007

De Fabriek & Wolff P. Rillings - Blecheintopf (tape, New Bulwark Records & Tapes, 1982)

ORDUC's New Bulwark Records & Tapes released three tapes as part of a series 'Music For Modern Art Exhibitions', to which this is one release, volume two to be precise. I don't think it was part of any real exhibition, but rather the music De Fabriek wanted to hear at an exhibition. Members are Heinz Bönig, Richard van Dellen, Andries Eker (the same guy from Era Ora) and Henri Mouwer. Instruments: guitar, bass, trumpet, organ, various percussion instruments, rhythmmachine, toyinstruments, toys, noise generators and voices. All compositions are remixed by Wolff P. Rillings and De Fabriek


Friday, December 14, 2007

Hot Poop - Er Is Geen Brug (tape, Kubus Kassettes, 1981)

There is no bridge is the translation of the title of this tape by Hot Poop. This was a collaboration between Kubus founer Rob Smit (who played a crucial part on many early Kubus releases) and one Bas de Groot. Two thirty minute pieces of which the first sounds like early ambient industrial and the second more industrial - that is the first half. The second half, well, the second half... you should listen for yourself and see if you make it until the end. Another great Kubus release, and seeing the few amount of downloads on Mark van Kempen (compared to say the Dutch punk posts), I think it's all a bit wasted on you. Hence I will persist in forcing this down on you.


Thursday, December 13, 2007

Merzbow - Aka Meme (tape, V2 Archief, 1985)

I already posted two releases by V2 Archief before, Laibach and Test Dept, and now comes Merzbow, in fact the first release by this label, from 1985. I think there is also a release on Merzbow's own ZSF Produkt label of the same name. Classic mid-80s Merzbow release, not as noise based as his recent work, but with shortwave and rhythm machines. Merzbow later 'recycled' this release into a 10", also for V2 Archief, called 'Red 2 Eyes', which I believe is the translation of 'Aka Meme'. There is also a later double cassette release by Merzbow, with concert recordings from the Netherlands, which I may do much later on.


Wednesday, December 12, 2007

Dutch Punk - Ninth Post (Svatsox)

When back in the days I bought the Svatsox 7" I posted earlier I though they sounded a bit too much like The Ex, which were my favorites. I never heard their records, which came after that, and now I regret that I didn't get those. 'Ruins' is still very much like early Ex stuff, but the second one is a really mature punk/post punk record, which sees them moving away from the cliche of punk. This post contains both these records. In the 'Ruins' zip you will also find demo recordings from july 1980, very very kindly donated by Niels of the famous Eet U Smakelijk blog. Svatsox later became De Kift, with on drums Wim, who played previously with Rondos. They still perform live and release records.

1. Ruins (LP, Platen twepi, 6,28, 1982)
2. Bred In The Bone, Out In The Flesh (LP, Villa Zuid Moet Blijven Records, 9,42, 1984)


Tuesday, December 11, 2007

P. Kok - Bombay (tape, Stichting Update Materials, 1982), Wallagh - Squareroot (tape, Stichting Update Materials, 198?)

Here are the other two releases I have from Dier's Stichting Update Materials label. From P. Kok I already posted a 7" before. I believe he was the guitarist in Dier. He plays guitar, piano, synthesizer and such like and is somewhat industrial at times, sometimes a bit more musique concrete. (Bob) Wallagh plays rhythmbox, bass, guitar, synth, vocals and steel percussion. His cassette is only very short, but nice minimal synth music.


Monday, December 10, 2007

Devil's Picnic (Anne Gillis) - Pomme Ou Pas Pomme (tape, Ding Dong Records & Tapes MS 183, 1983)

One of the very first entires on this blog was the Gust De Meyer tape on Ding Dong, the second in the series called 'Miniatures', this is the first one. On the cover we read that it is 'our intention (is) to present music with a strong visual character, in which there is a provocative relationship between the music and its package'. Surely this is a nice package, but what it has to with devils and apples, beats me. Anne Gillis's music on LP and CD can be found on various blogs, but this might be her most obscure release (one of the more obscure ones). I have no idea why she choose the name Devil's Picnic, but the music is a bit more synth based and less on concrete sounds.


Sunday, December 9, 2007

Tham Tham's Tempo Tape (tape, Tham Tham 004, 1982)

Tham Tham was somehow closely related to the early Ding Dong Records and Tapes and had many plans when they started out, including Cassette Gazette, a magazine on cassette (and a Andre de Saint-Obin song of the same name). I never saw those, so I doubt if they were released. The only two items released, were 'Hystery' by Monomen (which will come later) and this compilation tape of Arnhem's finest electronic musicians, in various combinations, some of them being a fine off. None of the names mean much, except More Tobs (connected to Remo Tobs) and Saint-Obin, but behind Ding Dong Twins are of course Van Kaye & Ignit, and Trollertanz are two members of Mekanik Kommando. Also included are Adinda & Robert, Tis Bam, Ungeheuer am Steuer, Wevri's, The Nonomen, Jan van Wijk and Maph. Great electro popmusic.


Saturday, December 8, 2007

Dutch Punk - Eigth Post

It's been a while since we last had some proper Dutch punk singles, and of course I thought about Stockhausen's death yesterday evening, but couldn't find something appropiate to post this quickly, so here is another nice punk lot.'Hatelijke Groenten' is a compilation of four bands, of Massagraf and The Jet$et are the most regular ones, Vacuum is really great rhythmbox punk and vocals while Fahrenheit 451 is more like no wave/post punk. Also included is a three track 5" flexi disc by them, with a cover printed on a garbage bag. The band was founded by Chris Smith who was in The Chopsz before that. Richard Cameron of Arling & Cameron was also a member. If you take it out of the plastic sleeve the inkt will fall off, just as intended. Cheap 'N Nasty were from Leiden and led by the same guy who had a fanzine called P.I.N. - Punk In Nederland (which I never saw), also already a bit more post punk, just like the Cold War Embryos. They were from Utrecht but had no ties to the Rock Against Records label, but curious enough recorded their 7" at the Rosegarden Studio, which I suspect had connections to Hi-Jinx. The final one in this lot is the first 7" by Trockener Kecks. I remember wanting to buy this from the Rondos mailorder (Raket basis), but they didn't have it. 'Will not get it', the girl on the phone said. Nothing political about them, which made them highly suspect I guess. Also in my opinion - great speedy songs, but 'Heineken Bier' (the b-side) is aweful beer.

1. Hatelijke Groenten (7" compilation, Rood Wit Zwart, 1982)
2. Fa 451 (5" flexi, no label, 1981)
3. Cold War Embroyos (7", no label, 1981)
4. Cheap 'n Nasty - Covergirl (7", Smashtick Plastics smashpla 001, 1981)
5. Trockener Kecks - Rik Ringers (7", Tk 1, 1981)


Friday, December 7, 2007

Das Ding - Two Tapes

The Netherlands have a strong tradition in minimal synth bands, some of which re-surface every now and then, like Ensemble Pittoresque, but there is more to discover, like Das Ding. Danny Bosten was from Terneuzen (I think) and ran Tear Apart Tapes. His first release was a split c20 with Les Yeux Interdits, which was one J. de Koeyer. Another release, the 'Kalkulator' compilation will be posted later. I have none other releases on this label, although there is at least one other Das Ding release on this label. The other Das Ding release is on Dier's Stichting Update Materials label and also a c20. Great minimal synth as they could only make in the early 80s.

Das Ding/Les Yeux Interdits, tape, Tear Apart Tapes tat 001, 198?
Das Ding - Highly Sophisticated Technological Achievement, tape, Stichting Update Materials st 008, 198?


Thursday, December 6, 2007

De Div - Europa Is Hier (LP, Plexus, 1982)

This is their first full length LP and you will find, in some cases, new versions of songs already on the Pasodoble cassette, posted earlier on. I am quite surprised how great this all sounds after so many years. Thanks to Gerco for sharing this with us - and he has some more great stuff to follow soon.


Wednesday, December 5, 2007

Der Junge Hund - Europa's Ladenversuch (double tape, Kremlin Products kr 007, 198?)

A long time ago, I posted the two pieces of vinyl released by Der Junge Hund, now it's time for a double tape by them. 'Europa's Ladenversuch' is a sixty minute tape of recordings made in Berlin, Zaandam, Eindhoven, Groningen, Apeldoorn, Heemstede and Amsterdam. The band grew to a four piece in this period: Renz Zanders on voice and guitar, Horst Rickels (sax), Rik van Iersel (drums) and Ole vd Beuken on guitar. The other tape was a fifteen minute studio tape. The live tape isn't the best in quality. Two more live tapes were released, which will be posted soon, and they show much better the raw dynamic of this free jazz punk combo.


Tuesday, December 4, 2007

Mark van Kempen - Egotrip (tape, Kubus Kassettes, 1982)

Kubus Kassettes was one of the better Dutch labels, who released a variety of musical styles. From ambient to rock to... well to classify this release by Mark van Kempen is difficult. I have no idea who he is, but he released two cassettes on Kubus, 'Zwart Wit/De Apostelen Der Liefde' being the second which I don't have, and 'Egotrip' is his first one. 'Egotrip' is was recorded on 52 saturday afternoons in 1981 using a sound on sound Revox A77. A most odd potpourri of music for guitars, drums, voices and such like and certainly a work that took him a lot of time. I tried to index this, but I failed, especially for the b-side it's hard to figure out when a track starts and stops. But it's a hilarious thing for sure.


Monday, December 3, 2007

Rotterdam Collection (LP, Backstreet/Backlash, 1980), Rotterdam Spunk (Plastic Cheese, 1983)

Ok, with all the recent postings about cassettes, which I think is great and something you should be downloading, because it's great music, we should not forget Dutch Punk. These two LPs are not just about punk, well 'Rotterdam Collection' isn't, but about all sorts of great music. On Rotterdam Collection there is Rondos and Tandstickorshocks, as well other more rock oriented bands. 'Rotterdam Spunk' is not mentioned in 'Het Gejuich Was Massaal', but I am sure this all punk LP will appeal to some.

Rotterdam Spunk (LP, Plastic Cheese 240883, 1983)
Rotterdam Collection (LP, Backstreet Backlash Records bbr 0001, 1980)


Sunday, December 2, 2007

Young Lions - Small World (tape, Amphibious Records A004, 1982)

I posted some of their music, although this is hardly to be compared to the Plurex 12" before. Here the Young Lions are a five piece of Tim Benjamin, Ronald Heiloo, Peter Mertens, Harold Schellinx and Rob Scholte and 'Small World' was recorded at one the Ultra evenings in Oktopus, Amsterdam, October 22nd 1980 and musicwise more along the lines of the 7" various members put out before. It was first released on their own Link Tapes and later re-issued by their own Amphibious Records label.


Saturday, December 1, 2007

Jeroen Huisman & Roelof Bakker - Don't Use Violence (tape, Bijna Alles Kan 001, 1983), Herzog - Laughing In The Warmth (tape, Bijna Alles Kan 002, 198

When the Dutch Popinstituut mailed back the box of tapes to me, I also dusted off the latest version I could find of Frans de Waard's Nederlandse Cassette Catalogus because I was thinking I could now finally post all the works by such and such and such label. How disapointing, since a blink in this small bible of cassettes learned me that there is very little that I have complete, it will be scattered pictures. But one label that is complete and presented today is Bijna Alles Kan (almost anything goes), who released two twenty minutes. The first one is by labelowners Jeroen Huisman and Roelof Bakker, the second by Herzog. I have no idea who is behind Herzog and Jeroen and Roelof never told me. They lived in a nearby village so I went there on my bike. Both releases are electronic, with vocals and political lyrics, certainly in the case of the Huisman/Bakker. They also had a bootleg cassette for sale with, I think, Joy Division's concert in Eindhoven but also a long version of 'Isolation', by Hannett that was supposed to be a 12". I never heard anything anywhere else about this piece. Roelof Bakker these days lives in London and Jeroen Huisman is a visual artist in Arnhem. True long forgotten music, but quite nice one and surely one should hear.